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Don't Be a Drag, Just Be a Queen ♪

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Posted by Centrixe the Dodo - June 5, 2021 - 12:05 PM

♫ I'm on the right track, baby, I was exported this way! ♫

Happy Pride Month, everyone! We're already halfway through the year – that's kind of wild, huh? Fingers crossed that we all get the opportunity to enjoy a stress-free and colourful June! Here's a hint to the singer I've referenced: "There can be 100 people in the room-"

Looks as if the biggest contenders today are the Persona games! There's tons of outfits and accessories to choose from. We've got Code Vein, Temtem, Dark Souls, Lightseekers Awakening, Metal Gear, and a mix of Mii models from myself; mostly Miitopia! Some media related games have made their way into the update as well, consisting of Pixar and a handful of TV shows. (Digimon makes an appearance, too!) 21 neat new custom models are here, and my personal favourites have gotta be Raymond by TheEnderDwonk + Starlow by None! Don't forget to check out the other creations, if you'd like!

Submitters, here's a tip from me: when it comes to renders, transparency is your best friend. There shouldn't be any backdrop and the render shouldn't be cut out through a photo editor, either. Fortunately, most rendering programs have the option to enable "alpha transparency" for the background of your image to save you all of the hassle! For example:

Posted Image

Submitting a model with icons like the first two is about the same as submitting a model with no icons at all; they may have to be re-rendered by us regardless. However, it's not a requirement to submit a model with icons, so please don't feel discouraged from contributing! It's simply encouraged to render 'em if possible in order to help speed up the approval process. (On Blender, I believe the option to enable it should be in the "Render" tab, underneath "Film." Hope this helps!)

Just think, "What would dodos do?" Stay fresh, and stay off the hook!

Models in this update: 797 (Show Models)

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	Petie Jun 20, 2021, 4:34 PM
	@SteamyJ The problem with an open call is that we don't know the users. Typically, the best way to find new staff is to go through the existing submitters as they're already familiar with the site. This has proven difficult given the complexity of models and I think making the entire process more clear/streamlined may help in that regard. We may also need to just consider training some of the more promising members to do things just a bit better if the model staff thinks that's a feasible approach. But either way, I'd prefer keeping things within the community unless that proves impossible in which case, yes, branching out the search to social media is likely the next step (though that comes with its own set of challenges, namely setting aside time to interview, so to speak, interested parties). As for showing the queue to the public, this has been suggested a bunch of times for a bunch of reasons and it's not something we want to do. If you're talking about just an ordered list of what's pending, that's already semi-possible by visiting individual game pages but having a complete list of all models in order of their submission date wouldn't tell the average user much since there is no requirement to strictly adhere to submission order when going through the queue. Yes, we usually work oldest to newest but sometimes, an individual member of the staff may not have a ton of time and will skip submissions without icons or those from a game he or she is not familiar with in favor one ones they can more easily approve so knowing where your submission is in the overall list doesn't give you much useful information. For everyone suggesting we add more of the details to the submission page itself, I agree. We're already planning on on-site (non-wiki) submission guidelines page that outlines everything and once that's up, we'll either link to it directly from the submissions page or possibly display it directly on the page itself (or at least excerpts of it, if it's too long to display all of). SteamyJ, as far as your concern of guidelines being useless if they're not read, I don't disagree but that's on the individual, not the staff, at that point, especially once they're more easily accessible. Additional tutorials and the like are definitely things to consider but will again require time from the staff to complete so I can't give an ETA on when you might see them.

	RavenclawNimbus Sep 28, 2021, 4:45 PM
	“What would dodos do?” Is what I say to myself everyday.

	Petie Jul 1, 2021, 11:14 PM
	@SteamyJ That's in the works. We just need to migrate the guidelines from the wiki to a condensed version on the site and then I'll either link them from the submission page or possibly just embed them directly next to the form.

	SteamyJ Jul 1, 2021, 8:03 PM
	One other idea is to have a checklist on the submission page. "Make sure model is X" that kind of thing but state the specifics.

	JunerenPNinobla Jun 22, 2021, 9:18 PM
	Or maybe turn on aliasing so backdrops don't occur when rendering and I think it will look sharp...

	SteamyJ Jun 20, 2021, 7:20 PM
	Good points. If you want to slowly train your promising members, maybe give them a few of the submissions to try their hand at. Like kind of a limited exhibition of what they can do. You'll likely have to fix them but the more you let people try their hand at the better they can become. Like an apprenticeship. I hadn't considered staff doing things in different order for different reasons. Maybe something smaller like a que sorted by system, just to see whats even pending. You're right it shouldnt be on the staff but regardless of how you approach things, complaints are gonna happen. Gaming seems to only continue to grow and its going to be tough to keep up with the growing demand. I dont want you guys getting jaded from it either but its the internet. I feel the more you plaster the rules and specifics of submitting the more you can reduce the complaints. I make youtube videos and years old videos randomly get angry comments. It just happens and ya kinda have to take it.

	Petie Jun 20, 2021, 5:13 PM
	The thought is appreciated but the ads we run directly support the site and keep it online. We're thankful to be in a place where the ads cover the expenses involved with running the site and don't need to request financial help from the member base.

	_vissova_ Jun 20, 2021, 5:08 PM
	One last suggestion, would it be possible for you to set up a donate button for the whole website so users can help support the staff? I would gladly donate if I could.

	SteamyJ Jun 20, 2021, 2:25 PM
	I forgot the other idea i had. Maybe compose a que so people can see what's coming up. That way people know exactly where their submissions are in line. It could lead to more complaining but it would give context to how long the wait is.

	_vissova_ Jun 20, 2021, 12:29 PM
	It could also be a good idea to add more information to the Add Models page, beneath the warning regarding submitting on behalf of others. Something like: "Due to the amount of submissions we receive your model may take up to several months to be approved. If you're not sure whether your model will be approved or not, feel free to ask in the forums." As well as mentioning that creating your own thumbnails will help speed up the entire process.

	SteamyJ Jun 20, 2021, 11:53 AM
	Let me clarify: I know this isn't a paid job. Most people here are well aware it's a volunteer basis. I meant to post it around in general and see if you can find someone. If not then at least you can say you tried but a concentrated effort is still worth it. Having guidelines is fine but it doesn't matter if people don't see it/read it. That guide is detailed but has one image. People need visuals, especially for something involving models. It also needs to be put front and center where people will see it, like the front page of the models resource so newcomers understand there are specifics asked of them. Youtube tutorials are still something to consider. I know you guys mean well but you can't just double down on your rules and expect things to improve. You are the folks volunteering your time and no matter how many times you say it, people will appear and complain/do things wrong. The initiative is on the staff to make it work, even if that is unfair. It's just the reality of it. If that's too much then take a break from the internet or don't do the job. You can't control everyone else.

	Centrixe the Dodo Jun 19, 2021, 9:33 PM
	@_vissova_: Yep, I've already been working on a pre-made Blender save made especially for beginners, speaking of! Its got instructions, tips, labels, and arrows pointing to specific nodes among other stuff. There's still changes that have to be made; I don't have a date for when it'll be up on the forums, but yeah, been a work in progress of mines! Trying to make it as user-friendly as possible has been pretty difficult, ironically.

	Petie Jun 19, 2021, 11:31 AM
	I’ll admit I could have been more polite in my response but I thought I kept things pretty civil beyond a little sarcasm. If you’re beginning to notice how short we are with users, surely you’re also beginning to notice why. We get asked the same questions, often very rudely, day in and day out. Most of our interactions with the user base are responding to complaints about things like approval times (often when they have only had submissions in queue for a day or two, sometimes literally minutes). When all of there interactions start off negatively, it can sometimes be a little hard to stay professional - we’re all still people after all. Of course, it’s not literally all interactions - we have plenty of good ones too - but it’s a sizable number of them and they’re almost never constructive from the member side. On the other hand, whether we’ve thought of it or not, your suggestion to provide a pre-configured Blender scene for rendering is a fantastic idea, assuming it’s possible (I’m not actually terribly familiar with models myself so this will need to go to our model staff) and even if it isn’t, is a good example of a constructive interaction. Identifying a problem and proposing a possible solution is a far cry from just complaining about slow updates.

	BestBowserFan4 Jun 11, 2021, 8:48 PM
	why does the news keep making fun of my failed duskull model upload

	DrakeyC Jun 10, 2021, 8:03 PM
	Guilty as charged on using the first image for my (pending) submissions. But in my defense, I submitted over 200 models; my workload was gigantic enough without using another program to load the models to export screenshots with transparency, and then load those in an image editor for the icons. Though there is no excuse for that second one. Ugh. Ew.

	Petie Jun 20, 2021, 10:37 AM
	To add to what Pingus! said, filling model staff roles isn't as simple as the other sites. It's clear we need help and there are plenty of people who have offered to do so but most don't have the required skillset. Posting it around as a "job opening", besides being confusing since it's a volunteer position, is just going to get us a ton of people who have opened Blender once or twice responding or people thinking it's a paid position, neither of which is going to help. I think the right first step is already in the works - make the ripping process (especially when it comes to rendering for icons) more user-friendly by providing resources and guidance first, have users revise their existing submissions, and hopefully make them easier to check. If and when we find people qualified to review them, they'll certainly be considered and brought on board but those people are few and far between. Constantly being told that we need more help and making it seem like it's easy and we're just not looking for it right helps nobody - we know what we need, we know who we're looking for, and we're just not finding them. When we do, you'll see a new face with a site staff badge but until then, getting rippers up to speed seems like the best bet.

	Pingus! Jun 20, 2021, 8:16 AM
	@SteamyJ The issue I have with your response is this: "Make like a job posting saying exactly what you're looking for, specific skills on specific programs and post it around until you have your needs met." This website is by no means a job, and is all community volunteering. Working through these submissions can be both frustrating and exhausting for checkers. We already have a list of submission guidelines, which can be found here: https://wiki.vg-resource.com/What_Makes_A_Good_Submission/The_Models_Resource . Being a submission checker also requires a great level of trust. I appreciate your patience and understanding in advance, as you may not know how hard these people do work when they get the chance. Life circumstances are pretty different across the board I'd imagine, given the world we live in currently. I'd ask that you give everyone some space, and respect the work that HAS been done, and WILL be done in the future.

	SteamyJ Jun 20, 2021, 6:51 AM
	It seems to be a big issue around here. Almost every update has something to say about the models being uploaded and what to fix. Why don't you guys make a youtube video that shows each specific section of what you want? Lighting, angle, model size, etc. Then when people are confused you can direct them to the video. Same goes for the thumbnails. People are willing to help but most of us don't know exactly what you want. I use Bandicam and it's excellent. That or like Centrixe said, write a detailed guide with some images. Like a wikihow. You should also make it more known how in need you are of help. If there are people who will moderate reddit forums for free then you can find a passionate person to train to get these models pumped out. Make like a job posting saying exactly what you're looking for, specific skills on specific programs and post it around until you have your needs met. Seriously, you guys can pull this off and when you do, it will make everyone's life less stressful. The models resource seems to be the only one to have chronic problems with this stuff so it should be more of a concentrated effort to fix it. Right now it's like trying to drive a broken car. It'll run for a while but if you don't do some maintenance here it's just going to break down and leave everyone without what they need.

	Peardian Jun 19, 2021, 12:02 PM
	@DrakeyC We are very behind on submissions right now unfortunately, and rendering icons makes use further behind. It has been five months since your earliest submission, and it could very well be 1-2 more months before we get through all 2020 submissions and reach yours. That is plenty of time to render icons for all of your submissions. And, if you don't know how to use Blender or don't know how to make good lighting, that's plenty of time to pick it up and practice.

	_vissova_ Jun 19, 2021, 10:47 AM
	Aight. I understand if you're stressed from the immense amount of work you put in, you guys work really hard, but that's not an excuse for speaking rudely to your userbase. I'm beginning to notice how short you guys are to users. It's not their fault for uploading submissions to your website and asking basic questions. Perhaps you could provide a download link for a Blender save that includes a basic lighting and camera setup for people to just drop their models into and make a quick render? You would have to include instructions for setting up the materials for their model and scaling it if necessary but if someone has already gotten far enough to rip a model from a game then I don't think asking them to do this is too much to ask. I mean I'm sure you thought of that too but I'm just trying to be helpful.

	Petie Jun 15, 2021, 9:58 PM
	@_vissova_ I'm really starting to feel like a broken record here but assuming you haven't seen the other million or so times this question has been asked, it's not like we're keeping the staff small on purpose. Finding people that are both qualified and willing to review models is far easier said than done. The fact is, we're always looking for new staff but there are very few who would be suitable for the role and even fewer that would accept it given the amount of time and effort they would need to volunteer. As for making icons mandatory, it's something I've thought about but they have historically always been optional because not everyone has the software needed to make them correctly and honestly, a bad or incorrect icon is just as bad, if not worse, than not having one at all.

	_vissova_ Jun 14, 2021, 2:03 PM ^*
	I don't mean to be rude or anything like that but why can't you just get more staff, or at least make things like user-created thumbnails a requirement to save yourself the work?

	Petie Jun 11, 2021, 2:16 PM
	@DrakeyC That mentality is unfortunately part of the problem with getting through model submissions. You said yourself that you were submitting a lot and didn't want to add the extra work to your process. That's fine since icons are technically optional (though strongly encouraged, especially for models) but just remember that you didn't want to do it for 200 models which means our extremely small staff has to instead. If most people feel the same way, that might mean 200 models for you or 5,000 for staff to have to do themselves.

	Petie Jun 6, 2021, 12:33 AM
	I just deleted two more comments from this update and want to quickly clarify for the members who posted them. Earlier, a comment was posted that broke our rules (as well as common decency) and was removed. Someone posted a screenshot of it on the Discord and I'm assuming that's why it was once again mentioned here but I don't want to draw any more attention to it than necessary so let's refrain from discussing it further. Thanks!

	Garamonde Jun 5, 2021, 4:42 PM
	Yes! Also, if using Blender you can set your rendering scene to be the same dimensions as the big icon itself too, I believe, so you don't even have to worry about centering it!